Is the Hyundai Genesis the new ls400? 

"Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord." (ningaboss) 07/12/2015 at 18:22 • Filed to: None

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I think it is it looks better, costs less, and you get a ton more for your money. It is better than the Germans in every way. As Mr. regular put it

The LS400 wasn’t meant to turn a profit, it was meant to draw people into the brand, to help establish the Lexus name in the marketplace. And...I mean, it worked, didn’t it? Lexus quickly became the best-selling luxury nameplate in the U.S., establishing itself in the market in ways neither Mercedes nor BMW could match among your regular consumer. Even today, Lexus is a name that inspires notions of a farther-reaching legacy than it actually has. It sounds like old money when it’s really noveau riche.

LongbowMkII > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:31

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except this hasn’t flipped that paradigm. It is still “just a Hyundai”

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > LongbowMkII 07/12/2015 at 18:34

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What is it with this country and brands? Toyota has no problem selling the lexus ls400 under a Toyota badge in many parts of the world. This car is pretty much perfect and it cost a lot less than the Germans. I hate badge snobs.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:37

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The ‘11 Sonata is what helped establish Hyundai as we know it today, as well as draw people into showroom floors

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:38

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There is no way I would buy a new E class or five series over a new genesis 5.0

Tom McParland > LongbowMkII 07/12/2015 at 18:39

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Dunno about that...sure there are plenty of Euro badge snobs that would never buy it, but that same mindset plagued Lexus in 1990. It took them a long time to establish a true luxry brand and I’m not that confident that Lexus really poached that many German buyers. What Lexus did grab is the millions of Toyota drivers who wanted to upgrade to a luxury car and wanted the same level of quality. Hyundai might not grab your 5-series lesees, but they are poaching buyers from Caddy and Lexus to some extent.

spanfucker retire bitch > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:40

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Would DD, absolutely. If I was buying a luxury-mobile that was still fun enough to drive to not put you to sleep (and by all accounts, this is) I would take this over pretty much any other offering out there. I love the looks of it, both inside and out.

Plus dat 10 year warranty.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:41

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We’re a shallow petty culture that will pay a premium just to own a particular brand to prove how superior we are to our peers? I dunno.

DrScientist > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:46

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i assume you mean the genesis is hyundai’s attempt to draw people into the brand and establish it as manufacturer and brand that connotes a certain level of quality. comparing it to the LS in terms of size/cost/design is a red herring. these two cars are not in competing classes.

as far as the former point—establishing the brand, or re-establishing as it were—the genesis is in a bit of a predicament in that hyundai has been i the US market for nearly 30 years as a budget auto manufacturer. lexus had the benefit of a clean sheet brand, for which it had more control of its positioning among consumers. when the LS was launched, no one had any idea what a lexus was, so lexus could make themselves into anything they wanted.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 18:47

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The thing with the Lexus was that there were measurable ways in which the car was just better than its rivals. Not better for the money, just flat out better. I’m not sure Hyundai has shown the Genesis to be a better car than its rivals, just a pretty good competitor.

Toyota was in a slightly different place then than Hyundai is now. Toyota was a brand that was known for making high quality cars which were cheap, Hyundai is a brand known for making cheap cars that have recently become high quality.

What Hyundai should do is go the Lexus route and introduce a luxury brand. The Hyundai logo is never going to be associated with being a premium marque...Toyota recognized that about their logo in 1990, and Hyundai knows that now: no Hyundai logos on the nose or tail of the Genesis or Equus.

Under_Score > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 19:03

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If Faded Glory (the brand of boat shoes, etc. at Walmart) created a pair of sandals with a similar design to Chacos, including the strong, rubber trail soles and excellent arch support, for only $30, would people buy them? I’m pretty sure not, as they’d be lumped in with the crappy footwear Walmart produces that fail to match the name brand.

This same mentality goes for Hyundai. An outstanding product would be overshadowed by the reputation Hyundai has for being a cheap, value brand. Granted, their reliability (along with prices) have gone up incredibly in these recent years, but stereotypes stick for a long time. I mean, people still associate Toyotas with sudden acceleration.

(Disclaimer: I love the Genesis and the other luxury vehicles Hyundai/Kia has made, but what I just wrote is the unfortunate truth.)

jariten1781 > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 19:13

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Well, there are some pure brand prices, but there’s also the dealer experience piece. At the factory owned dealer stores in other countries they can tailor and control the experience, sometimes having entire stores just for the more expensive upper scale portions of the brand. In the US, with the frachise agreements, there’s less control so it’s a crap shoot whether you get a nice experience or you’re trying to get your 80k sedan from a sleeve ball who makes most his money selling undercoating and pin stripes on Elantras. Setting up a new brand let’s you rewrite franchise agreements and give incentives for higher standards. So there’s a practical reason as well in this country.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 19:29

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If I had the ability to purchase a mid-size luxury sedan, it’d be one of these hands down. CTS, GS, and 5-Series be damned. Every time I see one of these the thought that constantly crosses my mind is just Wow that looks good. When I sat in one at the auto show I didn’t want to get out it was so nice.

Vzwolf > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 19:45

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I think we need to give it more time. Hyundai is not that far away from its “the bad credit consumer’s only ticket to a brand new car” past. Which even Hyundai is aware of. Which is why you don’t see a Santa Fe-sized Hyundai symbol on it.

PyramidHat > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 20:37

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Not picking up IS400, but I am picking up G37 Sedan. A sharp-looking car, nonetheless...

Now: Can anyone speak towards whether they have smoothed out their transmissions? I rented a Sonata about 10 years ago - overall liked the car, but it would buck at ever shift; I figured they needed more time to refine things...

boxrocket > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 20:54

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Are those the same regions where they offer Daihatsu?

boxrocket > PyramidHat 07/12/2015 at 20:57

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Totally different animal. 10 years ago we had 4-speeds with an overdrive (“5th gear”), and the rare-ish 6-speeds. Now we have cars with up to 10 gears, and CVTs.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 07/12/2015 at 21:35

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No

When the LS came out, the only competition worth looking at were the S Class, which was literally like 15 years old, the 7 series, which was a niche player, and the Jag XJ, which was deep in the throes of shit British build quality.

OK, the Genesis is supposed to fight with the E Class segment. E Class is excellent, 5 series is pretty good, A6 is excellent, GS is pretty good, etc. etc.... its not coming against an uncompetitive segment. But unlike the S class segment in 89, E class segment is not one set to explode any time soon. It’s mature, it’s competitive, it’s saturated, and if trends are any indication (SUVs are much bigger status symbols than sedans now; big sedans in particular are falling out of favor) it will decline soon.

All that said, it’s a hell of a value. My only wish is that they had pushed the boundaries with the interior design. It’s sedate to the point of banality. But otherwise it’s a ton of car for the money. The real question is whether it’s the kind of car people want.... I’m gonna say in general no. A better business play would have been a full size luxury V8 SUV for <$50K. People love those and buy those.

Rico > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 07/14/2015 at 11:23

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See but here is the problem with the idea of Kia or Hyundai creating a luxury brand: If McDonald’s opened a fine dining restaurant with $50 plates people would scoff.

Hyundai is doing the right thing as far as keeping the Genesis and Equus separate from the rest of the line up.

Caleb "If a rally car can do it, so can my Malibu" M. S. > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 11/03/2015 at 12:52

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Maybe ill be an Audi

Caleb "If a rally car can do it, so can my Malibu" M. S. > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 11/03/2015 at 12:53

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Maybe i’ll be an aston

Caleb "If a rally car can do it, so can my Malibu" M. S. > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 11/03/2015 at 12:53

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Maybe I’ll be a Merc

m2m, apex detective > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. 11/07/2015 at 21:27

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Hyundai are slowy creeping their way upmarket in Europe, so I wonder if this is a particularly U.S.-motivated effort? Introducing an all-new brand can be really hard if you don’t have something very niche or spectacular, e.g. Tesla.

I’d stick to it and just make the cars better with every damn iteration ... they’ve become rather good at it, now they just need to have the patience, I think. The previous generation Genesis had the terrible interior handicap that was the head unit. Awful-looking silver plastic à la 2008 Ford Galaxy Titanium, but they fixed even that.

What holds them back most in Europe is the available engines, or rather engine . They offer the Genesis sedan only with the 3.8 V6 here, and that’s neither particularly frugal nor particularly impressive. IMHO, they really just need to throw in a range of engines to make it happen. It being a car that actually has some major selling points (check!) and no deal-breaking drawback (that 3.8). Back in the day, Lexus could get away with offering only the V8, but that’s no longer how it works, e.g. you’d pay a fortune to run such a car in NL.

Even if I could afford something more expensive, I would hypothetically buy this over a 5-Series or E-Class in a heartbeat. I enjoy Hyundai’s efforts and I’d be happy to play a role in their success, even if that only meant getting one. Thing is, you can’t really sell it with that engine. Most BMW 5-Series driving around here are 520d or 525d models, most of them fleet spec company cars. Most E-Classes rock the 200 CDI or 220 CDI. Relatively basic engine with a lot of car, that’s what kind of sells en Europe. Sure, there’s the odd 550i, E500 or the admittedly common E320 CDI/530d, but they’re ridiculously outnumbered nevertheless.

/Euroland rant